CN: You say in one of your blogs, "We are a highly political band. That's what we write about and that's what we're passionate about. We can't write love songs because they'd be fake and not very sincere." How do you think the personal and political interface, and why do you use your music as a platform to express such beliefs, rather than as something entirely separate from political life and a universe unto itself (~say, the Cocteau Twins for instance (Rimbaud’s concept of self-enclosed universes ("Illuminations") unto themselves [or the Abstract Expressionists, rather than the Situationist International])?
Igor: No, art is a self-enclosed universe isolated from its surroundings. Its political impact may vary, but any powerful idea can be used for political ends. I mean, wasn’t the Abstract Expressionist movement financed by the CIA? Bleep is political simply because we believe that politics affects our every day lives. And we do care about how we live. For us, music as an art form is a vehicle for expression – both subconscious or emotional as well as political. There need not be a distinction between the results of a work of art as purely emotional as opposed to rational, aesthetic as opposed to applied. Music provides all of those things to us.
CN: You then go on to say "So, what about mathematics? Well, remember your high-school calculus and the graph of the log function? It comes very close the y-axis (x = 0) but never actually touches it. Same with socialist anarchy - it's an ideal we can aspire to and work towards, but I don't think we'll ever reach it. Which might be a good thing" What do you think a world in which socialist anarchy was the law of the land would look like?
Igor: I should have deleted that blog entry! I was bored and ranting. To answer your question, I’ll have to say that I don’t know. The anarcho-socialist experiment has been tried on a larger scale in the recent history, but hasn’t been allowed to develop. As with any experiment, you start with the initial set of ideas or premises (e.g. maximizing individual freedom within the framework of co-operative communities), then wait and observe. I don’t know what it would look like, but sure hope to experience it before I die.
CN: (Side-note: A math teacher friend of mine was perplexed at this statement of yours, because she seemed to remember it as the isotopes at y is equal to zero. To have none of this make sense to me, I found it perplexingly blissful to watch the two of you interact in relation to a problem that means nothing to me.)
Igor: I’m not a mathematician, so your friend probably knows more about it than I do. But, at the highschool level, the log function goes to negative infinity at x = 0 (however at x=1, y = 0) and the line of the graph never really touches the Y-axis. I just used this as a graphic example of a behaviour when something approaches something else but never really reaches it – maybe not the best example
CN: You also say, "Sadly, despite being a huge electronic music fan, it has never had that kind of emotional power on me.", citing Joy Division, Cocteau Twins, Sonic Youth, and Autumn Thieves as bands that did have a huge impact on you. I’ve often felt this way as well, finding myself working within the electronic music medium, but very few electronic albums have had a big emotional impact on me. (~Maybe two non-vocal, Aphex Twin’s ‘Selected Ambient Works Volume One’ and The Orb’s ‘’Adventures Beyond the Ultraworld’[which does have vocal samples] )
[ed. Note: vocal electronic albums are a different story altogether, Tricky’s ‘Maxinquaye,’ Massive Attack’s ‘Blue Lines,’ Portishead’s ‘Dummy,’ and tons of hip hop [mostly Outkast’s ‘Stankonia’, Jay-Z, Missy Elliot, KRS-1, Dr. Dre, and Wu-Tang Clan all being (in my opinion) among the best electronic music artists.))
Why do you think this (lack of emotional impact in electronic music) is (exists)? Do you think the difference is the human vocal touch, and do you think of Bleep more in terms of the bands you mentioned above because of Robyns vocals?
Robyn: My personal preference is towards electronic bands with human voice, but I wouldn’t say that emotion is lacking in every instrumental electronic track I’ve ever heard. It just seems to me that there is a school of thought, which believes that a person is a musician just because he or she has learned to manipulate a music program well enough. That makes him/her a technician, at most. Simply because you have a great pair of ballet shoes doesn’t make you a ballerina.
Igor: I suppose I was referring to the egghead-laptop combos so prominent in the IDM… Music is a form of communication (emotions, meanings, ideas) and garbage or nonsense can be communicated in any genre, not just electronic music. The problem is lack of experience – if you spend all of your time sat in your bedroom tweaking that synth, you’ll have nothing to "say". Speaking of the voice, it is the most intimate and direct instrument we have and it is perfect for communicating emotions (amongst other things). But, as Robyn said, instrumental music can be extremely powerful and emotionally impactful.
CN: Your music (to me) comes across as very uplifting, very feel good (~despite one of the sites where you sell your music describing your songs as pessimistic), especially songs such as "Coil" and "SIF", ~there’s a real sense of hope, the moment in the Olympics of the winner passing the finish line (or the special olympics, the wheel chairs and rush of hugs). The vocals are so confident and self-assured, that sense of everything’s going to be alright as the music takes you higher. In art you can reach ideals in sound in a sense, express and translate hope into music ("euphoria") so, referring back to question two where you said (re: socialist anarchy) "- it's an ideal we can aspire to and work towards, but I don't think we'll ever reach it," why do you think these places that we can reach (or achieve) in art are impossible to discover (or create) in reality?
Igor: I don’t think we can achieve perfection in art, especially not in music and sound reproduction. Physics of sound is extremely complex and thanks to psycho-acoustics, no two people hear the same piece of music in the same way. It’s all very personal and perfection looses meaning. But, we can work towards some "perfect ideal" in art and in society. The question is what that ideal is and how to achieve it.
CN: Do you think the creators of the sound worlds being able to control the elements and variables involved and force them to work (in violent, harmonious, physical ways [exerting mind force]) together is a model that can’t be transferred to the real world because no one has that much control over everyone else? [~even world leaders don’t have that much control. Does God? Does God exist? ]
Robyn: Please, let’s keep religion out of this. This question reminds me of the time when civil engineers designed roads using water around obstacles to see which way it flowed best, modelling the behaviour of traffic. What on earth made them suppose that commuters would behave like water?
CN: I once read a piece that Dennis Cooper (~the author of ‘Closer,’ ‘Guide,’ ‘God Jr.’, etc.) wrote that said when he was staying in Amsterdam it was absolutely boring because there was no struggle or strife, and he realized that the struggle and the fight in America was a major contribution to what made its art great (~think jazz or the blues coming out of complete adversity, or the Beats, or ten million other movements). In the song "Coil" Robyn sings "Is it hopeless to dream for a world more mature," which of course ideally I agree with, however it always strikes me that such a world might be boring (if everyone was politically correct). I’m a vegetarian, and some of my best friends talk about their meat eating heaven in front of me (KFC and buckets of rheingold [as Ellis says, the only thing that could make it better was if they were in Tahiti during the summer]) but, perhaps it’s these differences that make us interesting, that lead to such powerful art because opposites attract and it’s in contradiction (from protons, neutrons and electrons, to yin and yang) that we spin (and are inspired). So if such an ideal (a mature world) were achieved (like your socialist anarchy principle), do you think our art would be as powerful?
Robyn: "Coils" is about the damage that oil use is doing to the world. In my line "is it hopeless to dream for a world more mature" you could replace the word "mature" with the phrase "more likely to take responsibility for itself". I’m asking if it’s hopeless to dream of a world where people care about sustainability. Responsibility (i.e. a form of maturity) usually demands a certain amount of struggle and sacrifice, something I’m not sure this society is willing to take. No one wants to struggle or take risks, and so many things suffer, including art, which becomes bland.
Igor: I absolutely agree with you, Ben. You need struggle to create powerful art. That’s why most of the art produced in some societies (our own country, Canada is a good example) is a bit bland and inconsequential (we’re just too comfortable up here). However, we will never achieve a perfect society. There will always be struggle and coercion. If nothing else, there will always be heartbreak. I’m not worried about the human creative potential. What I’m worried about is how to finally unleash it.
CN: When you say ‘make sure there’s enough room in my mouth for both of my feet’ what are you talking about?
Robyn: The expression normally goes something like "damn, I put my foot in my mouth when I asked the Pope if he was catholic", etc. I’m just using it (slightly modified in magnitude) to say "I might be wrong but here’s my opinion…"
CN: How do you think someone from a hundred years ago would percieve your music? Do you see electronic music as any more or less futuristic than other genres around today?
Robyn: One hundred years ago we’d probably have been burned as witches. Seriously, I think it’s sad that art and culture have less of an impact on society now than it appeared to have one hundred years ago. Art Nouveau and Art Deco are still big influences today. I don’t see any radical thinking of that type being expressed at the turn of this century.
Igor: As for electronic music being more or less futuristic – we don’t believe that it is either. It’s simply another genre, a medium for expression. Perhaps the label ‘electronic’ gives people the wrong impression.
CN: Recently your songs have taken on a more organic tone (~I’m thinking specifically of the two you posted recently, ‘Flika’ and "Mittleschmertz", where more ‘real’ instruments are used, and where the tone in general of the pieces appears to be more evil, darker than your previous album [at least to me], almost tribal alien march to war [or eastern european]): why the change? Does this reflect a larger change in the Bleep aesthetic?
Igor: our new tracks are more evil and darker? Absolutely! We have become cynical old cunts!
Robyn: If there is a change, it’s not a part of some "grand plan". We just experiment each time we write a new track and you’re hearing the results. We’re currently experimenting more with improvisation and spontaneity.
CN: "Flicka" in particular seems to be the apophysis of all the promise inherent in Bleep to begin with, but at the same time such a light year leap from your previous work in the sense of sounding more raw. Space traveling (building, building) from sparcity to full on wall of sound crash over me (the phenomenal explosions all the more powerful from being built up to), also more in line with what you said were your earlier influences (Joy Division, Cocteau Twins, etc.): Insane, and joyful catharsis (release) because of it [i.e. really noisy]: where the hell did this song come from?
Robyn: Quick answer: Romania!
Igor: Our friend, Felix Petrescu from the Romanian electronic duo Makunouchi Bento, sent us a bunch of jazzy loops and asked us to make something out of them. At that time, we had just come back from New York where we were visiting Andy from the former Autumn Thieves. I guess we were under the influence of his ideas. Also, I wanted to record a song that sounded more like a jam session than a programmed electronic piece.
CN: Can you talk about your backgrounds? You’re both not from Toronto, right? And can you talk about the name of your label (TeknoStan Records) in connection (conjunction) with this? Is this your own label? Also, can you give us a bit of the history of Bleep? How did the two of you come together? Do you feel being multi-lingual effects your lyrics at all?
Igor: We both live in Toronto now, but are originally from Europe – Robyn is from the UK and I am from the former Yugoslavia. We met in Toronto in 2001 through a vocalist wanted ad. TeknoStan Records (TeknoStan meaning "the land of Techno") is our own label, thrown together quickly because we won the pressing of our first album IMM 0008 through an Internet competition called The Next Level (organized by Umbrella Music). Right now the label exists for us alone – we’d always hoped to expand to include others, but there’s no money in this business.
Robyn: Being exposed to different languages has manipulated the way I hear potential lyrics, which in turn allows me to experiment with made-up words. And being fluent in Sign Language helps me remember my lyrics on stage!
CN: The beats drop in and out all over Bleep’s songs, ~why do you think this giving the song room to breathe is so important, and what does this lend to the emotional impact of when the beat does finally drop?
Igor: I suppose I’m afraid of sounding boring. Dynamic changes in music are as important as harmonies, beats or lyrics are. Beats enable us to achieve these changes effectively thus supporting the overall emotional flow of the song.
Robyn: I think the beats build and release tension.
CN: The drums & percussion have a very world kind of vibe, off-kilter, off the beat feel, yet, perfectly in time (due to the electronic nature of the music): do you see people off-kilter dancing to your music live and do you perceive this as awkward people feeling comfortable in their skin at last?
Igor: No, we don’t see people dancing to our music at live shows. This is perfectly fine since we don’t make "dance" music really. There are many other ways to enjoy music rather than dancing to it.
Robyn: I have deaf friends who feel the sound vibrations and appear to enjoy them. It’s not really our job to make people comfortable in their skins – I’m no psychiatrist.
Igor: I actually hope that people feel uncomfortable when they watch our performances. Maybe that will make them think rather than expect cheap, easily digestible entertainment.
CN: What effect do you think all the blip bleep noises in the background do to subvert the feel goodness of the chords?
Igor: We hope they don’t take anything away from the feel goodness of the chords. I just think that the two styles complement each other.
CN: The song "SIF" glows a real sense of wonder at the universe, captures the feeling of the circling (the orbits rotation) of the solar system, that sense of vertigo and everything spinning around each other (the sun) simultaneously...is this sense of outer space something you consciously try to tap in to through your music, or does it just come out of you naturally? And in that same vein, do you think meaning is a human conception or inherent to the spinning of the universe, or as Robyn asks in "SIF": ‘Why does this mattter?’ (the emptiness of the beats dropping out at the end of the song answering its own question).
Robyn: You’re not going to like this answer much. It has nothing to do with the Sun or the Moon or the Stars. It’s one of the few times I’ve allowed myself to be self-absorbed. It’s just about how I feel on stage, vulnerable. The fact that SIF is a sweet-sounding concoction of voices swirling about is hopefully saying something positive about the inside of my head.
Igor: We don’t really over-analyze what we do and why we do it, so if there is a sense of "outer space" in our music, it comes naturally, probably through all the ambient records that we’ve heard (but, yes, I am an ex-astrophysicist).
CN: Your songs seem very structured in a calculated way (immaculately so). How do you think math has effected your music?
Igor: We don’t consciously think about mathematics when we write. We just follow the feel of the music and don’t worry about the lengths, time signatures, arrangements, etc. If they appear calculated, it’s not intentional.
CN: What initially drew you to electronic music (& electronic percussion)(more than say, a rock band)?
Robyn: It was the Fairlight CMI because it gave me an orchestra in a box. Also, rock bores me senseless – I find it very formulaic.
Igor: the adventure of experimentation and sound design inherent in electronic music did it for me. Also, the ability to work alone or with a partner, such as Robyn, was a big factor. I’ve been in many rock bands before and it’s just so tiresome working in a "collective". I’m a control freak and proud of it!
CN: What else do you do besides music?
Robyn: Crappy temp jobs when we need money. Otherwise independent music is a full time job – creating, performing, recording, engineering, manufacturing, marketing, distributing…oh how we’d love some help.
Igor: I enjoy long walks on the beach and preparing pan-asian dishes (I’m a yuppie in training)
CN: Do you feel like the politics of your lyrics gets through to your listeners? Do you think it changes anyone’s opinion (vehicles for change) or, is it just an expression of your beliefs?
Robyn: That’s entirely up to the listener. We have my lyrics up on the web site for people to read if they want to know more about a song. I find that if a song’s lyrics aren’t immediately obvious, it’s gratifying to me to be able to read them, sing along, and absorb myself more deeply into that song. It also gives me an insight into the way that musician’s mind works. I have no evidence that my politics have reached my listeners, no one but journalists ever comment on it. I can only hope I can help get rid of the general apathy I see towards politics.
Igor: It is our beliefs that we express through Robyn’s lyrics. If that changes anyone’s opinion, then good!
CN: The video for ‘Over’ is just phenomenally tripped and gorgeous and, fast effects without giving you that ‘I’m having a seizure feeling’, ~who made the videos? Do you see sound as color (and places) when you’re making the songs, and make the videos to fit your initial vision of abstract visuals, or do the visuals come later?
Igor: The video for Over was made by Mark Zarich (our first guitarist) who provided background animations, Damir Olejar on computerized effects and myself on everything else.
Robyn: We create visuals to compliment our live performances. When we’re compiling the visuals, the music dictates the colour, density and speed of movement.
CN: Did you read ‘No Logo’ and, if so, did it effect you in any way?
Igor: No, we haven’t read it.
Robyn: It looks like a good read although it took me 2 weeks to recover from watching The Corporation so I’m not sure I’m up for a depresso-fest just yet.
For more info on Bleep or to buy their music please visit: http://bleeptunes.com
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